What Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahri Do All Day, or Why I Cannot Talk About Politics With My Father

Only a fool would question the sea and sky.

I invite you to read the rest here and/or comment below.


little lies and the big one

always a pleasure to read your posts WP. I often wondered how such ridiculous lies could be swallowed en masse, I think your post answers this question: you cannot question the most outrageous lies without questionning the whole foundation, which is the actual image and values of America itself. Unconsciously most people may know that questionning any little thing threatens the whole edifice their worldview is based on. Nothing is stronger than denial. That's why I'm pessimistic: even if someday the corporate press told us that Bin Laden took credit for a terrorist attack through an email, this lie too would be swallowed whole. I don't know what the stupidity treshold is when it comes to this, or if it can ever be broken. Denial is beyond rationality.

McJ's picture

You are right about this

You are right about this guy Rotella.
And this:
"The task ...is to make the threat of terrorism appear to be diminishing and increasing at the same time"
is exactly what he appears to be doing.
He is some kind of master of the nonsensical. While informing us of their diminishing threat and how Al Qeada has "lost operational capacity...legitimacy and credibility" and is reduced to a total dependence on "self-selected volunteers" (laughing out loud whatever that means) for recruitment, he throws in a veritable potpourri of groups/terrorists that are 'associated' with Al Qaeda that are increasing the threats to our safety.

I just couldn't keep track of all these threats - so I made a list. Hope it helps. smiling

Al Qaeda (operationally diminished - reduced to recruiting self-selected volunteers - has at least one dead dude working for it.)
Osama Bin Laden (deceased)
Ayman al-Zawahri (Bin Laden's living sidekick and fellow fugitive)
Said Sheik - operational head of Al Qaeda
Rashid Rauf (ever evolving and possibly deceased trainer and director of Westerners and handler of British Operatives)
Walid Othmani (some Tunisian guy)

The Turks and the Central Asians (on the rise and law enforcement are deathly afraid of these groups!! -no reasons given)
Two rather large Uzbek groups (no info)
A group of Uighurs from Turkestan (the largest of the groups - no other info)
Two Kurdish groups (no info)
A mixed group led by an Uzbek (no info - don't know what/who they are mixed from or who their leader is.)
The Uzbek-led Islamic Jihad Union (Possibly one of the Uzbek groups mentioned above???
An Al Qaeda ally which broke off from the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan. They are the Turkish speaking alternative to Al Qaeda and a threat to Germany. They train in the Pakistani badlands with a muscular, bald American guy who brandishes an automatic rifle.)

The Afghan Taliban (just mentioned but no info given about this group)

The Pakistani Taliban (ties to Al Qaeda, the Afghan Taliban and other Pakistani groups, aspires to join in the Global Jihad)
Baitullah Mahsud (dead Pakistani Taliban chief who may have sent would-be suicide bombers to Barcelona)

Lashkar-e-Taiba (group that have had complicity in the past with elements of the state - whatever that means??)

Punjabi militant groups (ties to Al Qaeda, work in joint teams with the Pakistani Taliban to increase the threat of the diluted Al Qaeda)

The Global Jihad (No info on what this is but the Pakistani Taliban want to join in.)

Feel free to correct or add anything I missed - I actually found it kinda hard to follow. smiling

Thanks for a great post WP!

"The most unpleasant truth in the long run is a far safer traveling companion than the most agreeable falsehood." Emerson

Winter Patriot, You

Winter Patriot,

You mentioned that the purpose is to keep the threat and the fear alive. So, how do you see all this coming to an end? I mean, the US is still fighting the so-called war on drugs. Regan started the war on poverty. Nixon had the war on cancer (and Vietnam).

So, when will this madness end do you think?

who says it will end?

It was designed to go on forever, and rightly so, for that is its main purpose.

Using the myth of international terrorism, the terror warriors can invade occupy and destroy one country after an other, each time creating more enemies (which they can later cite as evidence that even more military intervention is needed).

The people running this war are more powerful than the people trying to stop it. They have had more success than we have and they are growing more and more powerful all the time.

They don't call it "The Long War" for nothing, Luke.

Bob in Prague's picture

The cloak of the legendary

You nailed it again, Winter! I have the exact same problem trying to discuss politics with my Dad. He can't see the rut for the mud, either. I'm sure it will turn out that Rauf left the tape on the lock at the Watergate complex, and then snuck into the White House and erased those innocent 17 minutes of banter. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Meanwhile, I'm working on my new epic poem, Earsnots Raised Grand (an anagram of Disarranged Senators):

Treason First,
Dire Treason.
U Scab u Ratnose!
Ram Hag Earsnot!

Just 97 ratnoses/earsnots left to incorporate into this wormtasker. It's a lonely job, but someone's gotta do it. Sigh...

Transparent Propaganda

WP, I hope you and your father have some quality time together, even if it does not involve talking politics.

Your mention of the Long War Journal reminded me of some recent research I did into my old friends at Iraq the Model:

"Omar Fadhil is now a summer associate at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. They are connected to the National Review and The Weekly Standard, and they publish a number of blogs including "Faster Please" by Michael Ledeen, "Iraq Status Report" and a blog called "The Long War Journal". There's that old neocon money trail.

Omar Fadhil is also now a graduate student of international affairs at Columbia University in New York City. He has 300 friends on Facebook, including media "guru" Jeff Jarvis, the mysterious Kerry Dupont (who offered all that cash to the boys in Baghdad), and Arthur "Good News" Chrenkoff..."


Hilariously, Omar Fadhil is now publishing "expert" opinion in places like the WSJ and Murdoch's "The Australian", and people like your Dad just accept it at face value.

"Only a fool would question

"Only a fool would question the sea and sky", or the moon and the stars it would seem.

Dave McGowan of Pedophocracy fame has written a piece on the alledged Apollo moonlandings entitled Wagging The Moondoggie. It is an extremely interesting read especially after NJT's poll on the subject and Winter's previously published article. In the article, McGowan wrote something which is very apropos to Winter's article here prompted by his father's attitude (and that of many (most?) others in the US) to the world and their place in it. I'll quote-
"What primarily motivates them is fear. But it is not the lie itself that scares people; it is what that lie says about the world around us and how it really functions. For if NASA was able to pull off such an outrageous hoax before the entire world, and then keep that lie in place for four decades, what does that say about the control of the information we receive? What does that say about the media, and the scientific community, and the educational community, and all the other institutions we depend on to tell us the truth? What does that say about the very nature of the world we live in?

To which I would add, more importantly, what does it tell them about themselves. They just might see themselves as the much loathed liberals amongst them and also a large part of the rest of the world do . . . dupes.


thanks for the McGowan links, James. I started reading the first link...not for the faint of heart to say the least.

You're welcome, Cryptic. As

You're welcome, Cryptic. As you indicate, it does take a measure of fortitude to persevere in reading it. There's more, if you're game! See McGowan's Serial Killers, for instance. Or go through the archives at Jeff Wells' Rigorous Intuition (old and new sites). See particularly under the heading "The Military-Occult Complex, ritual abuse/mind control, and "High Weirdness" - (scroll down right hand column) and "Mind Control and Ritual Abuse" at the new site. There are forums there as well.

What becomes inescapable is that our society is corrupt beyond the comprehension of almost all people and if this corruption turns its sights on you or your family, you are virtually defenceless against it. Such is the fate of a society that is not educated about the existence, let alone nature, of psychopathy and evil (and satanism).

Organised crime can only exist with the active complicity of the police, the courts, churches and governments and their various agencies. They appear to be opposing forces but are, in fact, two faces of the one coin. They work together to feed off the rest of society. Understanding this makes understanding this society possible.

Not logging in . . duh

It seems I didn't log in before posting a comment. Silly me! So the comment refering to Dave McGowan's article "Wagging The Moondoggie" is from me.


Sorry guys this is OT.

James is there legislation like our governments new proposed "search and surveylance" bill in OZ cause if there isnt I will be landing somewhere on your continent soon if this bill is passed. Theoretically this is to fight gangs. The US/world has Al Qaeda and our great threat is gangs.

"The Search and Surveillance Bill, now before the justice and electoral select committee, sets out the powers police have to search and monitor people, but also extends powers to other agencies, such as the Commerce Commission and local authorities.
They will be able to secure warrants to use surveillance devices, such as cameras, search computers remotely and search vehicles without a warrant."

Hi Sally

"don't know" is the short answer. But if we haven't, it is only a matter of time, imnho.
There is a police campaign against gangs here, too, and there is talk about new laws for the police to use as they're so, like, impotent at the moment to protect us all; what with one arm tied behind their collective back and the other arm wedged firmly 'in the till'.

I strongly suspect it is about a lot of money as well as the political dimension. In New South Wales where the latest ferfuffle (which reeked of 'false flag') started, the gangs are the only serious competition on the organised crime front that the NSW Police have. The motorcycle gangs (known as 'bikie gangs' here) distribute, amongst other things, ecstasy and the ecstasy comes from . . . wait for it . . . israel! So I'm figuring that the suppliers and importers, who may both be of a certain nationality which has a lot of financial and political clout, are wanting to take over the distribution in Oz and pocket the added profit.
This same sort of scenario is happening in New York, for instance, with the "Russian (read jewish) Mafia" taking over the criminal scene (drugs) and the Italian mafiosi ending up either in jail or skipping the country to escape the police who are, no doubt , being offered a better deal than they get from the Gambinos et al.

I expect the Kiwi gangs are into drug distribution, too, and therefore may well be facing this hidden competition, as well.

Here's an ironic thought; if the gangs were made aware of the hidden agenda and could agree on a common strategy which would include some pretty savvy public relations, they might expose enough police corruption and collusion with the drug importers and suppliers (from a certain middle east country with close ties to the CIA) and turn the tables on them. This might put the kybosh on the legislation. Of course, they might have to go back to only distributing 'the weed' which would be no bad thing.

Aaahh, one can dream, I suppose smiling

Thankyou James

The proposed law gives the right to search without a warrant on the ground of suspicion without any specifics. With computer surveylance I don't think there is anything to stop them planting evidence on your computer and putting you away real easy like.

They also want to remove the right to silence. It hasn't happened yet but 80% ( if thats not a big lie ) of dumb Kiwis are all for it so I imagine they'll get away with it.

Yes I think I may end up living in a dream cause one would hope we have mental privacy. Im sure there are those who would violate that privacy though. I think they call them the thought police.

In Oz, we have a quaint

In Oz, we have a quaint police practice called "verbaling" whereby they can enter into court an unsigned 'confession' of the defendant. Even if the defendant claims he did not say these things and strenuously notes that it is unsigned, the judge will still accept it as evidence against him. Corruption doesn't get more blatant than that and it has been around at least since I was a boy (which wasn't exactly yesterday!). Putting stuff on a computer is no worse than planting evidence at a search scene. Again, a long time practice of the police.
What the proposed legislation will probably do (and this may well be in the minds of the sponsors of the bill) is encourage police officers to become much more corrupt as individuals and more fascist in their dealings with people to intimidate further the public and to widen the gap between "us" and "them". Creating an atmosphere of fear and distrust suits the PTB just fine.

I would think the 80% figure is bullshit given who is broadcasting it. When was anything supported by 80% of the people that was up for a vote. The things people are actually united on never seem to be the subject of a vote; like not selling off public utilities.

"Yes I think I may end up living in a dream cause one would hope we have mental privacy. Im sure there are those who would violate that privacy though. I think they call them the thought police." and parents . . and teachers .. . and news readers . . . and priests and satanists . . . and security agency operatives and . . . but don't get me started smiling

I'm in a story mood. Wanna story? Okay . . . .there once was a man named Lionel Murphy who was a lawyer, a former politician, indeed, the Federal Government's Attorney General and later a High Court judge; and throughout all this, a crook. One day he made the mistake of trying to do something nice. He tried, while in government, to bring in an Australian Bill of Rights (we have none, rights, that is). This pissed of the PTB and eventually old Lionel found himself up on criminal charges. He spoke in his own defence during the court case and was convicted. But he appealed. At the appeal he remained silent, kept schtum. Not a word escaped his lips. The jury rewarded this remarkable effort from a former lawyer/politician and judge and aquitted him.

Wasn't that a nice story? I'm not trying to make any points here except maybe that the whole fucking show is corrupt and a joke!

Dave McGowan interview

I came across a 40 min radio interview with Dave McGowan on his book "Programmed to Kill". This book is the source of the Pedophocracy chapters which are, in fact, the first six chapters of his book.
You can find the link here at Penny For Your Thoughts

If you scroll down the right hand sidebar at Penny's you will find links to MKUltra docos. I haven't watched them as I don't have the bandwidth (or whatever it is that I don't have is called!). So I'd be interested in any feedback should someone take a gander at any of them.

McJ's picture

James re: McGowan interview

Thanks for the links. I listened to the Dave McGowan interview this week. He didn't say anything I hadn't read before but I was struck by his beginning comments on the reactions he had from his readers to this subject. I think of it as 'lines in the sand' and we all have them. The subject of Pedophocracy is so horrible and so far across their line in the sand that even many of Dave McGowan's readers are unable to explore it without resorting to calling it 'conspiracy theory' or accusing him of wearing his 'tin foil hat' on this one. Bless him for being so coherent and for the mountains of credible research he has obviously done on the subject.
Although I have the bandwidth, I just haven't had the time or emotional energy to watch the MKULtra docs as yet. sad I'm swamped in life and crisis all around me right now. Anyone else feeling that way? I am suspecting that others may be in similar situations since it has been so quiet around here lately. I'm beginning to think it is by design but then I am kinda fond of my own tin foil hat. smiling

"The most unpleasant truth in the long run is a far safer traveling companion than the most agreeable falsehood." Emerson

Hi McJ, I'm sorry to hear

Hi McJ, I'm sorry to hear that you are still enveloped in crises. It's not been a good year.
In answer to your question, "Anyone else feeling that way?, I can say "yes"! I have had a relapse of a long standing illness which has restricted my participation here (amongst other things).

While I'm here-
Aangirfan has an interesting piece that sheds some light on the subject of 'my enemy's enemy'
War Is A Racket

More links

AP over at Twelfth Bough has compiled an extremely good post putting together a lot of stuff that, although out in the public domain, is never linked up to paint a picture.
Once again, this picture is not for the faint hearted. If you've just eaten your lunch you might have to take care to hang onto it. Link follows-
"expand your definition of organized crime"

At the bottom are additional links for the intrepid including this one Aangirfan which is another compilation that leaves no doubt as to the state of things in Britain.

It's no different in Australia. The thing is that none of this stuff can survive for any length of time without police protection and complicity. There's just too many people involved and too much evidence to hide and too many investigations to stop.
Police corruption can only continue, in turn, with political protection and complicity.
And political corruption can only continue in an environment of media and financial elite's (who run things, after all) corruption and complicity. Each level has the power and authority to force change and justice on the level below but they don't. And there's really only one reason they don't and that's because it suits them the way it is i.e. they are up to their ears in it.
The telling question to ask all the time is "What should've happened but didn't".
Even a disinterested view from outside this underworld of horrors, if it applied Occam's Razor, would come to this view (wholesale systemic corruption of the most evil kind) as the only conclusion that made sense.

I'm sorry this has run off on a tangent from Winter's original posting. I should do a post on all this stuff but I'm not up for it at the moment.

Consonance -

Excellent, well-justified rant! Very few Americans have passports, and of those who do, fewer still have spent any substantive amount of time outside of the country. Worse yet, even less of them realize how myopic the American media is and make any effort to correct this.

I'm a secondary social studies teacher and one way I try to help combat this ignorance is with context. See, for example, "Global Pulse" and "Mosaic".

Keep up the struggle, WP!

admin's picture

Hi Khephra

Thank you for your post and the links. Your blog looks like a good one, I put a link in the sidebar here.

I Can't Talk To My Father Either

Thanks, good article. I was sent here from whatreallyhappened. I can't talk to my dad either, or my brother, my uncle, my mother...

THEM: "But NIST and Popular Mechanics say **blah blah blah**."

ME: "Yeah, well NIST is a department of the Executive Branch and PM is the epitome of yellow journalism!"

THEM: "Oh just because you're suspicious of the source doesn't mean everything they say is false. "

ME: "Right, except for the things they've said which were PROVEN FALSE!"

THEM: "You get so emotional."



I actually had a brief debate with them about the merits of torture. They think they know what's going on in the world because they watch "24" on Fox. They're of course pro torture "if it'll stop terror attacks." (which we all know is improbable at best)
Fine, let's waterboard some suspects; Dick Cheney, Ariel Sharon, GHW Bush, the BBC, Rockefeller, both Clintons, Urban Moving Company... But we wouldn't get any answers, all it would do is make them say whatever they think will make the torture stop. And to them, that's not even torture! ~LOL~


Al Qaeda = the toilet in Arabic - haha

Al-Qaeda is a Mossad, CIA creation and operation

the war on terror is bogus
it's all manufactured terrorism
Israel is worried about the Goldstone report
so expect another 9/11 anytime soon
vaccines = death and disease

I see this Rotella mentions

I see this Rotella mentions Turkish recruits for al CIAda. . . of course this mention of the Turks would have nothing to do at all with the falling out between Turkey and anti assimilation land (aka Palestine-on-Sea) thats erupted recently over Gaza and operation cast lead

This post is a diamond.

This post is a diamond. BuddhalovesPaine is very impressed with it.
There seems to be no end to the nightmare.
The rest of the world can only hope that some Americans turn their anger on to those that deserve it most.
The high ranking military, political, legal, religious, and media leaders in the US.
It is not the US military or the US government that protects the American people but the Iraqi, and even the Afghan, resistance. I used to be hesitant to support the Afghan resistance because as a Unitarian Universalist influenced by Thomas Paine, Buddha, Marx, Erich Fromm, Idries Sha, Murray Rothbard, John Brown, Che, and R.F.K. I see them as so backwards. But then, I realized the since the US and England gladly accepted the help of Stalin to defeat Hitler. So, I should gladly accept the the help of the Taliban to defeat the US imperialists.
Love and Kisses

Hi Curt

"But then, I realized the since the US and England gladly accepted the help of Stalin to defeat Hitler"
If I remember correctly, that arrangement had some downside attached to it that flowed on to a lot of people.

"So, I should gladly accept the the help of the Taliban to defeat the US imperialists."
But what if you found out that the Taliban were sponsored by 'the enemy' in the first place and that the entity they have morphed into is still being assisted by 'the enemy' in the form of guns and helicopter rides (and goodness knows what else) as seems to be the case at the moment?

What if you concluded from this that the Taliban are still a tool of 'the enemy' in their quest for ever more wars, chaos and destruction?

History has shown that "My enemies enemy is my friend" is, at best, foolish. It is always a 'devil's bargain'. Behind it also lies the notion that by adding more violence to violence, this will bring about an end to violence. In fact. it only enables it, of course.

Far better, I think, to disable violence by withdrawing the support in any way possible that the violence machine needs to function.

Off Topic - disinfo

A few months ago I recommended Atheo News (now called Aletho News) for our blogroll. The author turned up on another blog where I had left a comment on the reasons for the Iraq invasion and occupation. He contested my reasoning which is quite OK, of course, but then engaged in classic disinformation tactics and now causes me to wonder if his sites are established for gatekeeping purposes.

The upshot is that having originally nominated his site for our blogroll, I feel a responsibility to say I would no longer recommend his sites (the other one is Oh Bummer). If you would like to have a look at the exchange you can see it here in the comments section of Damian Lataan's site

It's 'Them' against 'Us' (as always)

From Aangirfan-
Lord of the Flies

Agree with you

...and I have the exact same problem with my father as well as other family members. Its tough being a one-eyed person in a sea of blind people, is it not?
Sometimes, I wish this actually was the Matrix and I could retake the blue pill and go back to sleep.

Keep up the great blog and thanks for permitting 'anonymous' posts.

In Liberty.

I know that Official Story is a Lie, but I don't know the truth

Here's part of another report about a drone attack on an 'al Qaeda' from the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation):

Top Al Qaeda figure dies in drone strike

A senior Al Qaeda leader is believed to have been killed in a drone strike in north-west Pakistan, a US official said.

The attack by the US unmanned aircraft was carried out earlier this week and the person who was killed was an "upper-tier" figure in the Al Qaeda network, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The raid was part of a growing bombing campaign by the US against Al Qaeda and Taliban figures in tribal areas of Pakistan.

The Wall Street Journal and CBS television reported that the man killed was believed to be the Al Qaeda number three, Abu Yahya al-Libi, who escaped from a US-run prison in Bagram in Afghanistan in 2005.

Conflicting reports said the man killed was Saleh al-Somali, a senior Al Qaeda operations planner.

The operation did not target Al Qaeda's leader, Osama bin Laden, nor his Egyptian deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, officials said. ...

Although I can see the Australian and US Governments' version of the conflict is a lie, it is hard for me to understand what is driving those fighting against the US in the way I am able to understand the Vietnam War.

Are those labeled 'al Qaeda'

(a) civilians;

(b) figments of the imagination of journalists like Sebastian Rotella;

(c) bogus, patsy guerrilla fighters being nurtured by the US to create the illusion of an armed struggle where none would otherwise exist;

(d) Taliban fighters mislabeled as 'al Qaeda';

(e) Popular liberation fighters; or

(f) Something else


(d) and (e) are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

Is there anything that will explain what is going on there and give us reason to want to see any political movement prevail in this conflict?

admin's picture

Combination of all

Maybe (probably?) over the course of the years al qaeda has included all of the above groups, (a)-(f)
In this particular instance, who knows? Could be any of the above.

Is there a political movement that represents the people of Afgahnistan, and if there were, would we know about it?

Greatly missing your insightful posts

Dear Winter,

I hope that your father is now well, and that you have superseded your own difficulties.

It would be a great pleasure to read more of your insightful posts again soon.
Your thoughtful observations and analyses are much missed.

Best wishes for a happy, healthy and successful 2010.

Regards from north of the 49th.,
Political Scientist

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