Moonwalking To Oblivion Without A Billionaire Sponsor: What's A Blogger To Do?

The early death of Michael Jackson has triggered some powerful memories, very few of which have anything to do with Jackson or his sudden demise. Nonetheless, let me take you back 25 years...

You can read the entire piece here, and/or comment below.


Totally Agree

Progressive Billionaire is an oxymoron at the level of Benevolent Dictator. A billionarie is so obviously a person who has devoted their life to investing; investing in people (regardless of whatever else they might say). And investing is all about getting out more than you put in and ALWAYS looking to do that. This is also known as an exploitative outlook. So to invite sponsorship from these sorts of people is no different to inviting the fox to overlook the henhouse.
Why do so many people do it and why do many more see nothing wrong with it? I can only assume it is because they all think the same way as the billionaire and that is why billionaires are universally admired.
If that's so, then they deserve each other. It's just a pain in the arse in that they all vote.

Agreed Winter. But I have

Agreed Winter. But I have to say I am more impressed than I expected to be, with a few sites I have been going to over the past couple of years, and their standing up for principles(warped as they may be). Glenn Greenwald, FDL, Balloon Juice have not fallen into the 'everything Obama does is great even if I hated it when Bush did it' crowd. They really make me sick.

McJ's picture

I would have been at your

I would have been at your concert Winter! I never did get the whole Michael Jackson hysteria. I liked a handful of his songs but that's about it. smiling It has long been rumored that Michael was abused by his father. I was reading over at Aangirfan (a site that James linked to on an earlier thread) and there are numerous posts on Michael Jackson regarding the abuse by his father and his possible involvement with the CIA and MKULTRA etc. If true, it would go a long way to explaining his bizarre behavior.

"What you get here is direct and honest, often too raw but never too polished, not commercially marketed or even amenable to such treatment. It's no wonder so few people are interested. But you can't get it -- or anything similar -- anywhere else."

I totally agree!!!

I just wouldn't trust the information coming from bloggers that were funded by faux progressive money pigs the likes of Soros, Gates and Buffet. These are some of the same assholes that recently met secretly in New York to discuss how they could use their wealth for population reduction. See here and here.

Apparently, a 95% reduction to about 250 -300 million would be an ideal number. Cussing
Watch out for that Swindle Flu and the coming mass vaccinations.... shifty

I posted a very good article from this month's Rolling Stone "The Great American Bubble Machine" - by Matt Taibbi in the forum. It is well worth the read. You can find it here.

"The most unpleasant truth in the long run is a far safer traveling companion than the most agreeable falsehood." Emerson

it's a shame ...

Thanks for your kind words, McJ (and all the others, too), and sorry I have been away for so long (again) Sad ... it's a shame you couldn't have been at the New Year's Eve show, but that's a whole 'nother story.

I have re-read the piece and found it seems to imply that I thought what we were doing was better musically than Michael, and that's not really the case. It was different, and pointedly so, and it put us "off the beaten track", and deliberately so ... and my commentary was not so much to imply that I thought we were doing superior music (for who can say that?) but more intended to point out that if you go off the beaten track, you can't expect a very large percentage of the population to come with you.

We were a very stripped-down little unit, playing bass, guitar, and trumpet, with tapes and sequencers and drum machines. We were borrowing from jazz and power-pop, ambient and ska, more or less simultaneously ... and musically it was sometimes quite wild. Maybe in another 20 years it will be considered cool to do all this, but 25 years ago it was just sort of odd ... and we did a show one night for $450 (mostly spent on rented gear and cheap publicity) ... and on the very same night scalpers were getting $500 for a pair of tickets to see Michael moonwalk ... hey, I'm just saying!

I've been reading a bit about Michael's life and I have to say I wouldn't have wanted to trade places with him ... so maybe it's a good thing that I was playing "drum-machine jazz" in a "punk band" Wink

I hope to be able to blog seriously again soon.

I've been enjoying this site a lot, lately.

After years spent studying alternative medicine, self-experimentation, years working in a health food store as well as being a consumer of health food items (some is b.s., some is not), I'm somewhat addicted to this site:

Give it a try.

Also (you betcha!),

I have grave misgivings of anything having to do with Prison Planet or Alex Jones, who would not know a fact if it came up to him and kissed him on the mouth---unless you paid him for it.

Also (you betcha!), population control is not necessarily a bad thing. It just has to be voluntary, not begotten by those who have a vested, financial interest in genocide.

Good luck with that one, tsisageya.


The Palin thing finally got to me but I do understand that I am not Tina Fey.

I don't think I've shared this yet,

but I discovered this song and fell in love with it. I thought you guys might like to hear it.

Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds:


Into My Arms

by Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds

I don't believe in an interventionist God
But I know, darling, that you do
But if I did I would kneel down and ask Him
Not to intervene when it came to you
Not to touch a hair on your head
To leave you as you are
And if He felt He had to direct you
Then direct you into my arms

Into my arms, O Lord
Into my arms, O Lord
Into my arms, O Lord
Into my arms

And I don't believe in the existence of angels
But looking at you I wonder if that's true
But if I did I would summon them together
And ask them to watch over you
To each burn a candle for you
To make bright and clear your path
And to walk, like Christ, in grace and love
And guide you into my arms

Into my arms, O Lord
Into my arms, O Lord
Into my arms, O Lord
Into my arms

And I believe in Love
And I know that you do too
And I believe in some kind of path
That we can walk down, me and you
So keep your candles burning
And make her journey bright and pure
That she will keep returning
Always and evermore

Into my arms, O Lord
Into my arms, O Lord
Into my arms, O Lord
Into my arms


that's really nice! :Cool

Nick Cave Is An Aussie!

That song was sung by Nick at the funeral of former INXS frontman Michael Hutchence. I reckon WP would like some of Nick's darker stuff, like this one:

And here's a cover of a favourite of mine called "People They Ain't No Good".


I agree. In fact, I said just the other day that people are just not good. But now I'm just depressed.

Back on topic...

Agreed. I can see how sites like Kos and HuffPo played a valuable role (whatever their other failings) in getting rid of the GOP. And I understand how WP sees Obama as Bush 2.0 but President McCain would have been a lot worse.

But now Bush is gone and it's a different ball game.

By co-opting the tag of broad progressive liberal online activism, these sites have become more of a hindrance than a help. Young, intelligent and politically aware people flock to these sites and expend many hours of valuable enthusiam only to end up becoming disillusioned - and then where do they turn? Alex Jones? Puh-lease!

Take "Move On" for example. Are they campaigning for Bush and Cheney to go to the Hague, or have they "Moved on"? Ha!

I'm also interested how many of these top "progressive" bloggers are Jewish, including Glenn Greenwald. Is their limited success tolerated because they can be trusted not to get too critical of the Zionists? I once urged Josh Marshall to take a harder line on Israel and he immediately sent me an email back calling me an "anti-Semite"! Go figure.

Of course a wee blogger like WP cannot compete with TPM, HuffPo & Co, and sometimes I think it would be pretty easy for a US government cyber team to ensure that he doesn't. Nothing too sinister, just exercising a little backroom control over who can view and access your site when you post things they don't want widely disseminated. Easily done, and you would never know or be able to prove it. Who knows?

So yeah, oblivion looms for bloggers like WP (and me) who have nowhere left to go. Where is OUR big tent? Collaborative efforts seem to fall by the wayside as disagreements turn to bickering. Everything is EGO! I find myself contemplating ancient Chinese wisdom...

As far as Winter is concerned,

let's go biblical.

Daniel in the Lion's Den

thanks, tsisageya!

This is lovely. I've put it on the sidebar of my blog, with a suitable bit of text, just to remind us all.

It looks good there, Winter.


McJ's picture

I agree

I agree, it looks good and I like what you wrote.

"The most unpleasant truth in the long run is a far safer traveling companion than the most agreeable falsehood." Emerson

I don't exactly know what this means.

But I like it.

Lyrics :

From a distance the world looks blue and green,
and the snow-capped mountains white.
From a distance the ocean meets the stream,
and the eagle takes to flight.

From a distance, there is harmony,
and it echoes through the land.
It's the voice of hope, it's the voice of peace,
it's the voice of every man.

From a distance we all have enough,
and no one is in need.
And there are no guns, no bombs, and no disease,
no hungry mouths to feed.

From a distance we are instruments
marching in a common band.
Playing songs of hope, playing songs of peace.
They're the songs of every man.
God is watching us. God is watching us.
God is watching us from a distance.

From a distance you look like my friend,
even though we are at war.
From a distance I just cannot comprehend
what all this fighting is for.

From a distance there is harmony,
and it echoes through the land.
And it's the hope of hopes, it's the love of loves,
it's the heart of every man.

It's the hope of hopes, it's the love of loves.
This is the song of every man.
And God is watching us, God is watching us,
God is watching us from a distance.
Oh, God is watching us, God is watching.
God is watching us from a distance

McJ's picture

Hi Ghandi, Totally agree

Hi Ghandi,

Totally agree with both you and Tsisageya re: Alex Jones and Prison Planet. I don't follow his site or much of what he does but I do go there from time to time. I just don't trust him, especially in regards to where he is getting his information from. Like Markos Malitos, I see him more as a "CIA plant" or cointelpro put there to push the national conversation in the direction they want. So, he's right about many of things he reports on but he will spin them in a sinister way or slip in the appropriate lies and disinformation when the need arises. Hasn't he become a bit of a darling of right wing talk radio, advocating for armed mititias etc.?

"I'm also interested how many of these top "progressive" bloggers are Jewish, including Glenn Greenwald. Is their limited success tolerated because they can be trusted not to get too critical of the Zionists?"

I have noticed that and wondered about it as well. I used to read over at TPM but only go there now if I am following a link (same with Huffpo). Although I didn't follow the sites very closely, it appeared to me at the time they had no meaningful coverage of Israel's latest adventure into Gaza. I wouldn't characterize them as pro-Israel but they are never too critical. As they say in Blue Collar Comedy "There's your sign!"

"I once urged Josh Marshall to take a harder line on Israel and he immediately sent me an email back calling me an "anti-Semite"!

Wow, that's wild. Did you write him back? sad

Glenn Greenwald does write some fairly critical articles on America's blind support for all things Israel. The comment section then goes crazy with screams of "anti antisemitism" and "self hating jew". I do read most of what he writes but he puzzles me the most of any of these sites, especially his stance on 911 which is basically the same as Chomsky's. He says he doesn't censure discussion of the topic in comments but he always intervenes to ask people to stop talking about it. He just did it again a couple of days ago when there was a small OT discussion on the FBI not having any evidence that Bin Laden was responsible for 911.

"So yeah, oblivion looms for bloggers like WP (and me) who have nowhere left to go. Where is OUR big tent? Collaborative efforts seem to fall by the wayside as disagreements turn to bickering. Everything is EGO!

Perhaps small and obscure has some value. If WP's site had a large readership he would most certainly be under constant attack from the thought police and would either be brought into line (not likely! laughing out loud ) or shut down some how. A multitude of small unconnected and unorganized sites which are not operating under a "big tent' may be much harder to track and control. I wouldn't discount, as you note , there may be some backroom censuring of these sites going on but probably not much. The lies are just too big and the truth too horrible for the average citizen to seriously contemplate so the PTB would likely count on this 'head in the sand' approach to life - imho. I've pretty much given up talking about these things around friends and family. Everyone has their lines in the sand about what they are willing to believe and once you cross it they just shut off like a light switch - end of discussion!! Recently, I pointed out to my sister in law's mother (a lovely, well read and intelligent women) that history has shown the US government knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor and allowed it to happen so they could convince the US citizens to get involved in WWII. (I didn't even suggest the Gov may have been involved in planning the attack). Her response was that it couldn't be true because she was alive during that time and that she would never believe it. My dad was also none to happy about my revelation because he as well, was living during that time and that meant I couldn't possibly know what I was talking about. Go figure indeed!

I find myself contemplating ancient Chinese wisdom..."

Have you found any pearls?

"The most unpleasant truth in the long run is a far safer traveling companion than the most agreeable falsehood." Emerson

Small and obscure it is then!

McJ, I replied to Josh but never got a response, funny that. I assume I'm on an email blacklist maybe? Anyway, I still hit him up with some URLs from time to time, not that they ever make the TPM front page. I've also written a few blogs on TPM but never put too much energy into it because you do get that "head in the sand" reaction from readers there.

As for Glenn, I can understand him not tolerating too much 911 discussion because he will also be labelled a kook and routinely ignored thereafter. It's probably better that he doesn't buy into the 911 "conspiracies" for now - he's all about digging up facts and holding people accountable, which should eventually reveal the truth about 911 anyway. I have lots of time for him, read every day, and drop comments when I think I can be useful (which is less and less these days, for better or worse).

Here's a pearl of Chinese wisdom to finish off:

"Others are clear and bright,
But I alone am dim and weak.
Others are sharp and clever,
But I alone am dull and stupid. "

From my Bush Versus Confucius post (

You guys may think this is funny.

TPM used to be at the top of my list of one of the sites I visited several times a day. When 'they' started accepting ads showing buxom blondes in suggestive poses selling something or other, I quit 'them'. I don't have time for all that mysogynist b.s. That's why I quit dailykos---sexism---don't ask. I've quit many places over the years but I always come back to WinterPatriot.

So there.

McJ's picture

I used to spend a lot of

I used to spend a lot of time reading at TPM (so don't feel bad Tsisageya ) but I pretty much decided it was a waste of time. I too have sent him links to no avail. Maybe I am on that blacklist with you. smiling

I hope you are right about Glenn, I just can't fathom how he could buy into the official story but as you say if he did blog about it he'd be over. And I do think he does some great work. I often make my way through his comment section. He has some regulars that contribute a lot of good information and I have noticed your comments which are always thought provoking.

That was a great post. Thanks for linking to it. Perhaps you could cross post here on the Winter Patriot dot com from time to time. I follow some Canadian bloggers who have their own blogs and then cross-post their best stuff to another blogger's site called The Galloping Beaver. They are a small group operating until a "little tent" (or perhaps I should say a "little dam") but there is always something interesting to read on their site. Just a thought.

"The most unpleasant truth in the long run is a far safer traveling companion than the most agreeable falsehood." Emerson

newjesustimes's picture

good day

"I've pretty much given up talking about these things around friends and family."

Likewise, and that's the reason I'm so glad to know Winter and all of you. I'm not the only "crazy" one who actually pays attention well enough to know the global war on terror is a mostly one sided farce.

(totally OT) You've probably seen this but I found this NYT article interesting and moving; mostly about some whales that like to see humans.

have a good day!

McJ's picture

Good Find NJT

Good find NJT. I really enjoyed that. I have read how researchers believe it is military use of sonar and other underwater shenanigans that are causing the whales to beach themselves. The part about them getting the bends was really shocking. And what a typical disgusting opinion from Supreme Court Justice Roberts, “For the plaintiffs, the most serious possible injury would be harm to an unknown number of the marine animals that they study and observe.” These guys don't give a shit how many humans they maim and kill what's a few whales.

I was sailing with some friends on a small boat in the Georgia Straight between Vancouver Island and the BC Coast one sunny summer day some years ago. Myself and a girlfriend had just been on inner tubes being pulled behind the boat (lots of fun). We had just barely gotten back on the boat when an Orca with two babies came alongside. It was an awesome sight and startled the hell out of all of us. We figure they must have been following in our wake. I was glad they didn't surface when we were in the water!

As I'm sure you noticed I picked the Orca for my avatar. Killer whales or Orcas reside in the North Pacific waters. The Haida believe that killer whales are human counterparts who have their own complex societies beneath the sea. They have a close relationship with man and are the rulers of the sea. They are known as the King of the Oceans, Great Spirit of the Sea and Ruler of the Under-World. These travelers and guardians are associated with strength, communication, beauty and power and they are believed to be the record keepers for all eternity. They feature prominently in many of the beautiful Haida artworks.


"and that's the reason I'm so glad to know Winter and all of you. I'm not the only "crazy" one who actually pays attention well enough to know the global war on terror is a mostly one sided farce."

Me too! I feel really alone with my thoughts in day to day life. I have temporarily lost contact with my one friend I had to discuss 'stuff' with and I think my husband is just exacerbated with all the info I 'share' with him laughing out loud so I am glad we have this site.

"The most unpleasant truth in the long run is a far safer traveling companion than the most agreeable falsehood." Emerson

Wow, McJ!

I was going to post something about the military use of sonar and how it drives the sea population to distraction---with my eye toward whales and dolphins---but I find that you've said it all, and then some.

For instance, a personal example: when a car goes by with the bass THUMP-THU-THUMP-THUMPING, that rattles my guts and rib cage(you know what I mean), I become so beside myself that I have to immediately leave whatever I'm doing and go to find that perpetrator. I have been known to scour entire parking lots SEARCHING. Yes, I know, I'm weird. But that's what I think about when I think about sonar and sea life. It must be empathy.

(Look at me. I'm not cussing in public right now.)

I've been reading Glennzilla

since before he became somebody. I think I can safely say that he is very focused on the U.S. and the disintegration of the ideals behind the U.S Constitution, as well as the corruption of the political class. He banned me from his site one day, long ago, and I couldn't believe it because I was one of his biggest fans. However, I've since come to realize that, perhaps, I was in the wrong. I think I created too much drama that took away from his message.

I do have some criticisim of him but, for what he is doing, I think he is a hero. I don't think he gives Israel a break at all.

I certainly hope I'm not wrong.

McJ's picture

Me too!

"I certainly hope I'm not wrong."

Me too! smiling

"The most unpleasant truth in the long run is a far safer traveling companion than the most agreeable falsehood." Emerson

Unclaimed Terrritory?

It's interesting that despite his stance, Glennzilla still gets a lot of "911-ers" who frequently break into discussion. I guess it shows that (a) he holds their basic respect and interest, and (b) they have nowhere else to go.

I mean, nowhere remotely "mainstream" where their words might somehow penetrate into the popular consciousness!

not for me

Glenwald doesn't hold any of my respect, or my interest, and whenever I accidentally get reading him, I always find myself thinking, "How in the world can somebody who is so smart and so well-read be so consistently blind to so many basic and obvious (and crucial) truths?" ... and then I remember: "That's how they get popular, and that's how they stay popular."

The fact that he still gets pro-truth comments indicates to me that some people still don't understand how completely he ain't budging. Hope springs a turtle and all that. Rah rah rah.

As for Josh Marshall, I remember the first thing I ever read of his, and how impressed I was. I think he was the first blogger I ever took seriously ... but only for a while. Eventually I learned enough about the net to search his site, and then I spent some time trying to answer the questions: "When did Josh Marshall realize that 9/11 was a fraud?" and "What did he say about it?"

I pounded on his site for hours, using every possible relevant search term, and came up completely empty. To the best of my recollection, I have not read him or linked to anything he has written since.

I disagree with Gandhi's assertion that guys like Marshall and Greenwald are avoiding looking like kooks by avoiding 9/11, and by avoiding bogus terror in general. I think they are doing just the opposite, shredding any claim to credibility by lining up behind the big lies, and running sites that are basically worthless, or worse than worthless, because they focus the dissent on essentially irrelevant details.

They are far from the only pro-Zionist and pro-Jewish journalists and bloggers who do this, who pose as "dissident writers" and "investigative journalists" and "anti-war leaders" but never come close to the big issues, and I'm just enough of a gentleman to avoid mentioning a bunch of the others by name. But I'm sure you can figure out who they are.

While I'm disagreeing with my friend Gandhi, I should point out that Obama has largely succeeded in pulling the wool over the eyes of the world, continuing the same basic policy (with many of the same people) that Bush initiated, but somehow giving it a "respectable" veneer. John McCain would not have been able to do this; if he were President the world would have a much easier time seeing what America is really about, and perhaps the world's relatively strong countries would be more inclined to stand up against Uncle Sam and his grand plans, rather than dropping to their knees and crawling around trying to lick his boots.

Therefore, in my opinion, in the long run and in the large view, the election of Obama is much worse news for all of us than the election of McCain would have been, and for this reason I do not agree that the big lefty gatekeeper sites -- like Kos and HuffPo, TPM and Glenwald, Misinformed Comment and the formerly green and yellow blog where I used to work, and where you can't say "zionist jews" even if you're talking about people who go to the synagogue every Friday and support Israel to the hilt -- have done anybody any favors by "getting rid of the GOP". Quite the opposite, in my view. They have helped Obama to "unify the country" by marginalizing both the anti-war movement and the pro-truth movement, and if there is any justice in this life (or the next one) I would not wish to be in their shoes.


I've learned to listen to you regarding these things, Winter, as hard as it sometimes is. Thanks for the dose of cold water. I do agree.

And besides,

come to think of it, most of my "drama" was caused by my spouting off about Native America (which I am wont to do, as you all know) and how the Constitution didn't ever do them a whole helluva lot of good. He's a Constitutional lawyer, you know. His first book, How would a Patriot Act brought up a lot of my spouting off, in the comments. I think that's why I got banned. Hmmm.

Thanks for reminding me, Winter.

well, tsisageya ...

you certainly don't have to worry about being banned here for spouting off about Native America and how the constitution didn't do them a bit of good. Or for being female, or for having opinions, or anything else, really. We kinda like you around here! Wink

And as far as I can remember, I've never actually banned anybody, at least not from my own site. I have banned a few obvious trolls elsewhere, though.

And BTW you also don't have to worry about buxom babes advertising anything ... or any advertising for that matter. I may not be able to post much sometimes, but whatever I do is voluntary. Nobody is setting my agenda, or influencing what I write, or how I research ... It's quite a lonely process, really. And sometimes I get it wrong! But that's the way it's gonna stay around here ... except that I hope to resume writing soon! Wink


The problem is Winter, Obama seems intelligent ballanced etc etc. He just doesn't look like the war criminal he is. And I do agree about certain blogs you mention. They are ineffectual now more than ever. They do have a problem though that if they really went head on with the truth just how long would they live? That holds all of us back I'm sure. I have suspicions about Alex Jones like I have about just about everyone. Agents of propaganda are all over the net not to mention the MSM and will use this assertion to question my sanity. Exposure of the ever increasing sickness ( evil ) of the perpetrators and their actions, "the Truth" is now passed off as paranoia.

"paranoia"? crap!!

This is exactly my point, Sally. If all the big "lefty" bloggers were in fact truth-tellers, rather than truth-concealers, it wouldn't be so easy for the corporate media to keep hammering on the BS idea that the people who pay attention and remember important things for more than a week or two are actually paranoid lunatics.

I've been seeing this same meme in various forms ever since I was a kid who realized the Warren Commission's story about how JFK was killed couldn't possibly be true. But it became much worse in the immediate wake of 9/11. We were told all the time that one had to be completely loony to question the official story. And it has turned out that not one important assertion in the official story can be verified except the date. The simple and obvious fact is this: one has to be completely loony NOT to question the official story.

But this simple and obvious fact doesn't have any traction on the supposedly "leading" supposedly "dissident" blogs. And that makes it much worse for those of us whose minds have not yet turned to mush.

I used to admire GoLeft TV's "anti-corporate" contribution

Hey Winter

I used to admire GoLeft TV's limited contribution and felt they would be a popular starting point for truth seekers. Now I'm puking when I occasionally visit that site hoping that they will start seeing what is hideously obvious that ya'll told us before the fantasy stage show ( the people triumph ) election that was televised. With Go Left its all democrat republican garbage which I used to believe. They really seemed convinced that the dems were the hero's and I think they maybe now know there are no heros. They might be choking a little on the the very thick bullshit they now spew. But when I think about it a bit more they must have already known the truth, it was just me who didn't. They have years of experince and knowledge of the political system surely.

When you look at how much trash we get from then MSM and how much money and power they have its not out of the way to imagine they have infiltrated the internet and have something to do with what we all see. Can a big lefty blogger still manage a day job? I doubt it. Its about survival and who has the cash. Blah blahh.

My mind has been mush for a long while . I think wanting to know and therefore seeing truth is actually a personality or soul trait which I have mixed in with a large bowl of brain mush. Some people just don't care about the truth. 6 million die in the congo for Coltan, a mineral that keeps our cellphones from overheating. When I tell people they don't give a shit. They quickly turn the converstion to their own situation and what might affect them.

Lucky I stumbled from another blog to here and around a little.

My memory of 911 is that I wasn't watching the telly much at that time. I think I remember seeing the fake plane fly into WTC and thinking thats not possible whats happening but I disregarded it. I felt sort of sick about a lot of things including the reports of a clear day when the clips were so dim and remember thinking thats wierd and what the hell is going on. I felt sick for a while but I put it out of my mind and didn't question it further. My own difficulties occupied me to the point where things outside of me just didn't get much airspace in my head. .Cartman I was consumed with myself as most people are.

Yes some lefty blogs are compromised. ( I don't read many) Maybe if they had told the whole story no one would have joined. They would be in mental instiutions or secret prisons. Once your credibility has been destroyed for telling too much truth in the face of relentless media coverage against you then the silence might be even louder.
I don't read too many "lefty blogs" but even Pilger who I admire and believe is completely genuine, avoids and bows to 911 propaganda in an effort to remain credible and therefore still listened to on some other fronts.
What would happen if they all told the complete truth? They would have to do it in unison and they would have to be heard or they'd would be marginalised maybe forever and no one would hear anything at all. Would this happen or not , I don't know.
And thank goodness a couple of those other blogs were there as it was somewhere for me to go initially when I first noticed a few things happening that worried me. I sought them out and if they hadn't been there I would have felt very alone in my suspicions about electronic voting. They have been theraputic for me in that regard but despite the tireless efforts of many, they are no match for the continual fantasy ( assisted by hiding reality ) being fed to the public on many fronts by the MSM.
Bless you Winter and everyone here. Its one place where we can be real so lets not all fade away if we can help it

Agreeing To Disagree?

This is not the first time me and WP have to agree to disagree. Last time I think we were talking about "pitchforks"?! WP takes a sterner line than me on some issues, perhaps because he can visualize standing at his gate with a pitchfork while I just hope it never happens to me?! But if push ever came to shove, maybe I'd the first one running out to the garden shed, who knows!

If you ever find two bloggers who agree on everything, they are probably not worth reading.

The neocons once dreamed of a "cataclysmic event" that would shift US public opinion into a space where their fevered dreams of global empire could be realized. Perhaps another "cataclysmic event" - like the meltdown of the US financial system, leading to widespread civil unrest - will shift the political space again, and open up public opinion to allow more serious discussion of things like 9-11, WMDs, torture, etc.

If so, it would be interesting to see which bloggers stepped in to fill that "Unclaimed Territory"!

Here's one that makes me calm.

February 18, 2008
The Tale That Might Be Told
Perhaps they will recount the tale many years from now. Perhaps an old man or woman will tell the grandchildren the story once more, as they try to speed the descent of peaceful rest. It's one of the children's favorite stories.

Decades earlier, the two major political parties in the United States had torn themselves apart in what turned out to be the last presidential campaign. The nominee of one party was determined fairly early, but he was viewed as unacceptable by a very vocal segment of that party. Many individuals tried to reconcile the disputing groups, but such efforts only made the problems worse. By the time of the fall election, the disagreements had deepened beyond repair. Everyone was very bitter and angry. Many people threatened not to vote for president at all.

The struggle for the other party's nomination went on for months. There were fights about technicalities, about which rules should be followed and which should be disregarded or revised; supporters of the two major candidates traded criticisms, smears and finally vicious rumors. When the party's nominee was finally selected, everyone was disgusted. Everyone agreed that the nomination wasn't worth a damn. Many people threatened not to vote for president at all.

When election day finally arrived, no one knew what to expect. The answer quickly became clear. Voter turnout was the lowest it had ever been in memory. Almost no one went to the polls. When all the results were finally counted, a total of slightly less than five million votes had been cast for president. Very few votes were cast for other offices. One candidate for president had clearly won, although the popular vote totals for the two major nominees were within 10,000 votes of each other. With less than a 10,000 vote margin, and with a total of only about two and a half million votes, what was such a victory worth?

Could any individual claim to represent an entire nation of over 300 million people in such circumstances? There was no victory speech. Commentators struggled to find something to say about what it all meant, but no one listened to them any longer. No one knew what would happen.

People went to work. They enjoyed time with their families and friends. Nothing fell apart. Life went on.

Finally, January 20th came. Because they didn't know what else to do, the political class had made the usual preparations for the inauguration of a new president. Almost no other Americans even noticed the date. In the cold winter air, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court stood on the platform, surrounded by the usual dignitaries. The few people who wandered by on the street, on their way to work or perhaps to a movie, thought all those people in their fine clothes probably didn't have any better way to spend their time, which seemed terribly sad.

The Chief Justice and the others on the platform waited for more than an hour past the appointed time. No one appeared to be sworn in as president. One or two cameras carried the day's events to the nation and to the world, although not many people watched. They were busy with other activities. Finally, the Chief Justice put the Bible down -- he had dutifully held it all that time -- and he turned to one of the cameras. He attempted an unconvincing little smile and said, disbelief and bafflement in his tone, "Well, I guess that's it. You're on your own."

People went to work. They enjoyed time with their families and friends. Nothing fell apart.

Over the next few months, people slowly realized how their lives had changed. No new bills would be enacted; there was no president to sign them. The federal government wouldn't be involved in more and more areas of their lives, and the government's enforcement mechanisms were gradually falling apart. People understood they would be left alone now. They began to make other arrangements. They formed new communities, most of them fairly small. Many local farms sprang up. The communities traded with each other, and eventually people figured out new ways to get most of the things they needed and wanted.

Another change happened later. A lot of Americans were stationed all around the world on various military missions -- in more than 130 countries, in fact. But since there was no president and no bills were being enacted, none of them were being paid any longer, and no new supplies arrived. Slowly, all these people abandoned their military jobs. Some of them settled in the countries where they were stationed and made lives for themselves there; others returned to their families and friends in the United States.

Life went on. In the following years, people all around the world saw that no calamities or disasters occurred because the United States had ceased to exist as it once did -- except that more and more people seemed to be happy. To be sure, many aspects of Americans' lives were very different, but everyone liked those differences. People ate well, better than they had in years; people received excellent medical care, many for the first time; people still had fun, more than they had for a long time. People actually knew their neighbors and many of the members of their communities now.

As people throughout the world watched all this, the same changes began to occur in other countries as their elections took place. Almost no one voted. There were no new national leaders, and the national governments slowly dissolved.

Life went on. People were content, and their lives were full. There were conflicts from time to time, but only on a very small scale. They were quickly contained. Most of the time, the world was at peace. People had seen death and suffering on a terrible scale, through endless agonizing years. They wanted something new. Finally, they had it.

The story is done. The grandparent looks down, and smiles. The children sleep peacefully now.

[I copied the entire thing. Sorry, copyright.]

Arthur Silber

Funny thing is, Arthur professes to be an atheist. I was once an atheist too. One thing I do not like, however, are his TMI posts asking for money. (Too Much Information).

Am I wrong? Has anyone ever actually met Arthur?

Tell the truth now.


Hi Gandhi. I've got to agree with Winter here and for this reasoning. The power to exploit people en masse stands or falls ultimately on whether or not the deception employed is successful or not. Deception takes two forms, lies and concealment. If Greenwald (or anybody), though they may not lie, consistently conceals the truth, then they are supporting, through deception, the power structure that is exploiting all of us. That's the crucial point. Their motivation for doing so is of little interest to those who are dead and dying and should be of little interest to us as well.

Even though some of these bloggers "do some good", it is as foolish to follow them (or engage them or promote them in any way) as it is foolish for a sailor to set to sea in a boat that floats most of the time. It has to end in tears sooner or later.

Winter's point about Obama being worse than Bush or McCain (if I'm reading him right) is that he is able to deceive more people more effectively and will therefore do more harm in the end.

Having said all that, I'm very glad you are commenting here again.

totally ok to disagree

This is, in fact, how we learn. Or at least it used to be before politics became an exercise in both sides shouting above each other, while saying essentially the same thing.

Go ahead and disagree all you like. That's what we're here for.


You can't resist!

I love you!

McJ's picture

Weddings and Funerals

"...what has the CIA got against Marriot hotels?"

Don't know but do you think it may be the same thing the US military has against Muslim weddings and funerals? sad Sad

"The most unpleasant truth in the long run is a far safer traveling companion than the most agreeable falsehood." Emerson

Muslims and Hotels

Maybe not selling out has something to do with it.

I did some research today.

I did some research today. This will be familiar to some of you, and for sure to Winter since I found it all round-aboutly through him. But I ended up on this site. I would be hard pressed to reenact the sequence of googling but Winter was at the center of it. Actually, he was at the beginning, middle, and end of it. I happened upon 911review.COM. NOT 911review.ORG. Apparently there is a big difference. I finally understood, through this site, how pervasive are the propaganda, cover ups, disinformation, and downright lies.

Finally, I understood why I was/am always so confused about what all the different people say about 911 and why the truth movement is so darn confusing and contradictory. What exactly were they all saying and why did no one agree? finally allowed me to see what was going on. I'm still studying it but I feel it may be the place for me for awhile. Of course, Winter could put the kibosh on the whole thing if he says the place is crap but I suspect that won't happen. Not absolutely certain though. This certainly makes a lot of sense regarding lefty denial.

Anyway, here's a good graphic that he's seen before. Maybe everyone has. I hadn't. It certainly did make all my hairs stand on end.

Here's a bigger version.

In my previous comment

that first link to was supposed to be to the main page: I like the way it's set up---very simple yet there's more to dig through.

newjesustimes's picture

on 911 review

Thanks for the links tsisageya.
It's been a while, I've been to this site in the past.
I take issue with some of the site's stances, for example, with regard to the Pentagon, and I find the authoritative tone condescending. But I must say it is an impressive site with some interesting perspectives.

Very Interesting Diagram

Hi Tsisageya

That diagram looks very interesting indeed and I would appreciate anyones comments about it.
I followed the 911 link but did not agree much with the view expressed about the "no plane hit the towers" view so wasn't interested in reading further. Go watch "september clues" here to see that it was most likely missiles that hit the pentagon and that the television footage was faked. The televisions footage of the second strike recorded on home video shows a plane? supposedly hitting WTC with nothing falling off going right into the building and then when slowed down you can see the nose comming out the other side completely intact. This can only happen in the fantasy land of video fakery. You would need to believe that an aluminiumm bodied plane pierced the massive steel framing of WTC which consisted of 186 steel columns around the outside. The core of the building contained 47 much heavier steel columns. The film was obviously doctored as its just not physically possible for that to happen.

Whenever I study 911,

I start out strong, then, eventually, I begin to think that there's nothing I can do and I start to think about God. I start to think about Jesus.

Yes, you heard me.

Even if I ever KNOW what happened, even if I come to know the truth, so what. Big deal. What now? Who cares?

I start to think that maybe I'm not a Winter Patriot after all. That makes me sad.

tsisageya! you can't be cold all the time!!

There are many reasons why it is very difficult to "understand 9/11" and one of them is the sheer enormity of the crime, in the sense of: this horrible thing was done, and then this horrible lie was told, over and over and plastered all around the planet; the lie was accepted, embraced, engulfed and sanctified, and it was a lie of alchemical power: it could turn mere ignorance into vicious, endless, hatred. And that's why it was done; to understand this is to apprehend the true scale of the crime. It was done with the active complicity (if not at the behest) of people to whom we entrusted the security of our country, and who now rule its remains with a heavier iron-fist than ever before, while they use its last remaining strength to batter the world. And this is what it was designed to allow! And that is why they did it!

The scope of the betrayal involved here is so extreme that it takes a certain sort of mind-set to be able to comprehend it -- or even to contemplate it long enough for the truth to begin to sink in.

It can take a long time to develop the habit of mind that allows you to do that, and the process can be painful. Having developed the ability to actually think about such awful things, one then needs to spend countless hours learning about the monstrous details of the monstrous event.

The journey is a very difficult one; you must cut a path for yourself through a jungle of enormous, poisonous, tangled lies.

Nonetheless, the truth is on the other side of that jungle, and that's why people choose to go through it. We know that we can never truly have peace without justice, and we can't have justice without truth. So we (in the largest possible sense of the word) need the truth. And that's why some of us are so compelled to seek it.

Seeking the truth doesn't necessarily mean immersing oneself in a 24/7 quest for absolute knowledge of every detail, as soon as possible. Anybody who digs too hard for too long finds that out -- each in his or her own time. For each of us there come times when we have to stop hacking at the jungle for a little while, and sit down, and relax a bit.

But we can't afford to relax for too long in the jungle. It's too dangerous! And we can't afford to turn back. The safety of the lie is only illusory, and acceptance of the lie renders us powerless, and we know it, that's why we started on the journey in the first place.

So we think about these things as we sit, and soon we find ourselves refreshed enough to start hacking away at the jungle again. Eventually, even before we emerge from the jungle, we reach a point where we can sense that most of the vines and wild animals are behind us, and then the going gets a little easier. And finally we reach a place where we are dramatically empowered by our enhanced ability to think clear thoughts, and our increased understanding of the world around us. And after that it all gets a lot easier.


Sometimes some sarcasm helps a bit. Perhaps you might like to read the oldest piece in my archives: "Trouble"

The Matrix

This reminds me of that scene in the first Matrix movie where Neo goes back into the Matrix with his new friends after being rescued from it and being wised up and trained up.
He was amazed to see everything the same though now it had a whole new meaning.
I know it's only a movie but one wonders if he didn't have friends and the ability to escape the illusion of the Matrix regularly whether or not he would be able to hang onto this new meaning and not go potty.

Yes, James.

Many thanks to you, as well. I have a fondness for that movie. I'll take the red pill any day.

Thanks, Winter.

Many thanks.

I just spent a couple of days with my grand daughter, daughter, and son-in-law. We laughed a lot.

Between that and your words of encouragement, I'm ready to get back in the saddle. Thanks for your understanding, as always.

So, anyway,


This is my favorite Todd Snider song but I could only find it at this church.
(disclaimer: This is not my church. I have no church.)

HOWEVER, this version satisfies me.

I may have shared it before. Not sure.


Tell anybody that ain't got nobody
Somebody's coming
Tell all these people who think they need money
Somebody's coming
Tell everybody walkin' tall and proud
That their money talks, but it talks so loud
That there's somebody coming
That's gonna change everything

Tell all these people makin' all these decisions
Somebody's coming
Tell all these people with their hateful opinions
Somebody's coming
Tell everybody in the KKK, in the FBI, in the CIA
That there's somebody coming
That's gonna change everything

Somebody's coming to change your mind
Sneak up on all you believe from behind
Somebody's coming who won't let you down
Who'll turn everything you thought was right around
Well somebody's coming
That's gonna change everything

Tell all these people at the end of the line
Somebody's coming
Tell all these people holding "I'll work for food" signs
Somebody's coming
Somebody's coming, been here before
If you think you're outta chances, well you've got one more
'Cause somebody's coming
That's gonna change everything
Somebody's coming that don't need your vote
Gonna rattle your cage and rock your boat
Somebody' coming like a thief in the night
Gonna stand by his people when we're took weak to fight

Well somebody's coming
It's gonna change everything
Somebody's coming
Somebody's coming
Look out!
Somebody's coming
Yes it's somebody coming
That's gonna to change everything


You guys might like to check out this story about an Australian comedian team confronting John Yoo in his classroom:

The YouTube is hilarious, but the comments are also interesting. The US readers at are dismayed that it takes an Aussie crew to go in there and confront this war criminal. But you can hear the kids in the class telling the Aussie to get out! And then they applaud John Yoo at the end, when the Aussie is ejected!

To me, that says a whole lot about the dominant mindset in the USA. As a commenter noted, the students in that class don't care about the truth, they just want to learn Yoo's secret ways of screwing the Constitution!

Or as Winter said of 9/11 above, the truth is out there, but it takes a totally other mindset to even begin to face it.

Co-Opting The Myth Debunkers

And how's this story from HuffPo just to prove Winter's point:

"Obama Calls On Bloggers To Keep Health Care Pressure On Congress"

Yes, the President made "an invitation-only conference call" to "a handful of prominent progressive bloggers".

"I know the blogs are best at debunking myths that can slip through a lot of the traditional media outlets," he said. "And that is why you are going to play such an important role in our success in the weeks to come."

what it is!

This is it! This is what it is! It always has been, but they used to try to hide it, somewhat. But now, especially since 9/11, they can't make it any plainer. And it doesn't even seem to matter anymore.

Only a few of us allow ourselves to see the truth, and we are increasingly marginalized. So it's no wonder they don't bother trying to make up plausible lies anymore. They don't have to. They can just say whatever they want, and round up the "prominent" "progressive" bloggers in support of their agenda, and the rest of us can go suck eggs.

That's their theory, anyway. Some of us might choose not to go suck eggs, of course. Wink

Where were you?

Hey WP,

Weren't you on the call with Obama, WP? I was trying to work out which voice was yours. Were you the muted voice in the background muttering, "B*llsh*t! B*llsh*t!..."???


I wonder who those lucky, lucky bloggers were, and why their names didn't appear in the HuffPo story? For shame?

It's a funny game the elites play isn't it? Yes, kids, you can get access to the President himself, but only if you play by our rules. OTOH if you are not singing in tune, then you will not get further special access. Gosh, sounds a lot like what's gone wrong with the newspaper industry, doesn't it?

the muted voice, indeed

you couldn't hear me very well at all ... because I was so busy ... um ... licking ... his ... um ... shoes! Wink

We need Dr. Who!

Holy cow, I love that show. Especially from 2005, although I remember watching the old one before and enjoying it.

He always saves the day against all odds and the most horrendous evil creatures.

Not that I'm recommending television, James. Did Dr. Who begin with books? I'll have to look that up. Stupid technology. I keep forgetting I'm a neo-luddite.

Thanks Gandhi!

Humor is a great thing that I often forget to use instead of anger, sadness, or despair. I always appreciate humor (when appropriate, of course, and who's to say when that is?)

Anyway, I think both of these things constitute humor.

By the way, I've been enjoying your site!

This place and the people

This place and the people who inhabit it are great! Thank you all.

There you go!

She certainly appears to know what she's talking about.

Very insightful. thanks for

Very insightful. thanks for sharing

And anyway,

hasn't it been written, and said before, that the road to destruction is easy and wide, and many are on it?

While the road that leads to salvation and life is a narrow, difficult, treachorous path and few find it.

I love that. Imagine all the fat pigs on that wide road to destruction. And no, I am not sorrowful about it. I imagine Judgement Day is at hand.

Yet, in the end,

many will be saved and there will be peace like a river. Now I'm confused. Thanks a lot, Lord.

Oh right. The "Tribulation". Yikesers!

Just so you all know a bit of the personal,

I HATE it when I misspell words! It happens all the time.

I try not to worry about it though because I know you guys still love me. Right? Am I right?

Just kidding, I know you do. And I love you.


thanks for the link, a new blog to follow...


when i decided i needed a disclaimer on my blog, i wrote this:

This site contains my opinions. Take them or leave them. I offer them freely and make no claims about their veracity. I could be wrong, but I don't lie. As I said, I offer them freely. The little saying "you get what you pay for" cuts both ways, because independence is priceless.

once people get into the money and the traffic, it's goodbye to the independence. probably like winning the lottery. sounds great at first, then oh crap what the hell did i get myself into.

So true, Peasant.

So true.


Should I start cursing and ranting about something in order to get the yarn spinning?

I can definitely do that.


I keep saying I will rejoin you when I can ... and I will ... but in the meantime, feel free!


Looks like Google has gobbled up Kennysideshow. Found this message where his blog should be-
"Blog has been removed
Sorry, the blog at has been removed. This address is not available for new blogs."

You might want to rethink using Blogger, Winter.

No offense,

but I would rather not discuss Kenny right now.

(Look at me! I'm a tosser!

The MONARCHY sucks, okay? You morans.



Quite understand

The morans are a family in australia who like to kill their friends and relations.

but also...

in satirical analysis of American politics, the word "morans" (all lower-case) is a slang-derogatory form of "morons", inspired by this photo of a pro-war demonstrator with his home-made sign.

Poster Boy

Beautiful. It's not unlike one of those moments that come sometimes when reading Zen koans. The associations and insights just snowball and are beyond words.
Here's another one-

Dear Lord,

God Almighty,

I am a sucker for a zen koan. And Haiku. And Shoyeido Japanese incense.

What's up with that?

Oh right. I don't care for the chanting to an unfamiliar god, though.

The Palestinian cartoon, however, is not from an unfamiliar God.

What in the world to make of that, dear Lord?

Your Holy Highness, The Ultimate Non-Moran. Presenting, the Lord Jesus. The Messiah.

By the way, Lord, The sound of one hand clapping is the same sound as the tree that falls in the woods with no ears to hear it, right?

Well crap.

Half a teacup, then?

newjesustimes's picture

half of everything

half of good and half of bad
half happy half sad
half the best thing, i ever had

what a life this is

i miss your articles winter. did obama fix everything so now you've nothing to write about?

just teasing smiling

I am glad to see the blog still has a pulse. . . . .

beauty, eh





Flattery or Praise


I used to praise Winter quite a bit and the motive was actually that he deserved it. Competent, truth tellers who you can understand and enjoy are a rarety on the internet and indeed on earth as there is no money backing that sort of subversive activity smiling And even better WP lets us speak our own truth, even those of us who are not experts although we cannot see his eyes rolling. I don't always agree with him and do pipe up when I disagree. Usually belatedly I find out he was right although we don't agree on everthing.
I think maybe he finds the praise a bit embarising so I don't over do it these days.



Who Knows

He he tsisageya I really don't know If Winters emabarrised. Maybe he only has time for the writing and barely time for that. He can be quite chilly or busy or whatever. I don't think the blog is meant to get too personal. I sometimes just disapear and so I might seem a bit rude but its not anything to do with anyone here. Its my own life running in the background and how much time I have. Its a tricky medium where personal slights can be imagined quite easily and I say this from my own experience. Please forgive me if I just don't have a minute to reply or I might not know what to say. Working it out might take me ages so I may just not reply. Oh Dear smiling I'd better go now.

Hallooooooo out there

Well, my dear Winter Patriot (if you will pardon the familiar tone) I see that you are still out here in the cold and snow on your lonely vigil. And writing as well as ever! Shall I light a small fire of praise and admiration to warm you for a moment? I have been involved with military personnel for quite a while now and watched how they conduct themselves. Though many of them can be physically brave, I cannot claim to know any with any significant amount of moral courage, but here you are still trying for as long as you can to stand your ground.
Unfortunately I have been gone from this cold place for about two years now, but I have found a good vantage point. From where I am standing, I can only shake my head in amazement as the Powers that Be seem to have become so blinded by their own lies that they cannot see the hole they have dug themselves into and are still digging deeper and deeper as fast as they can go.
Again my salutations and felicitations for your continued health and well-being and most of all sanity in this insane world.

P.S. Perhaps the time for Winter Patriots is drawing to a close and then there will be a need for Summer Patriots.

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